I also don't like how these fundamentalists are allowed to attack science, yet the second I try to turn the tide, by questioning where their evidence is, they simply say that they could be right because I can't disprove them. So I asked them, in that case why do you not believe in the gods of other religions, you can't prove that they don't exist either.. again, they say that it is a matter of faith..
Anyway, this happened when we were debating divine command theory.
The theory that anything that morals are derived from god. god tells humans what is right and wrong.
Even giving them the benefit of the doubt, that their deities could exist. (Please refer to science if you want to know why I don't believe in such a being). I had to point out that the probability of the sacred texts not being true, or being misinterpretations of events, or even fairytales is more likely than them being the truth. Of course that was shot down, because they were right because they had faith that they were right, and were unwilling to listen to evidence that contradicted their beliefs.
also since that day every time the moral question of sacrificing an innocent life is brought up, their one and only argument is that god condemns those who kill... that's it they won't lay a hand on an innocent person because they are afraid of eternal damnation. One of them even said.. what's to stop people from killing others if not for God. Then they went on question where atheists got their morals from. And this is a question that has been asked by fundamentalists over and over and over again, and we have answered, over and over and over again. And the answer is that our morals our based on reason. They are based on being tolerant, open minded, and decent human beings, because we value this one life that we have, and wish to live it to the fullest.
Also if somehow it were scientifically proving that their religions were hoaxes. What would happen to their morals then? The atheists would still retain theirs, regardless of weather or not a divine being exists.
All I'm saying is I am tired of the double standard that is constantly imposed against those who would listen to evidence in favor of those who won a popularity contest of belief and faith. Even after many of those beliefs and faith have had evidence presented against them.
Also in case anyone tries to start bashing science after reading my rant, please make sure you understand the actual scientific theory, and not just an "interpretation" or "opinion" of it. and if you wish to argue against it, please formulate a proper scientific experiment, and run several trials and then get evidence that after properly analyzed would refute a certain theory, and I guarantee that the scientific community (after following the proper scientific procedures) will revise their theory if the evidence after thorough research shows need for revision.
I disagree! When I was an atheist, I was a Godless infidel! Now that I've found Jesus, I'm doing His work in oppressing homosexuals, harassing women who kill their unborn miracles, and I do everything in my power to make America return to its Christian roots!
ReplyDeleteGod is to thank for all the miracles! Like the Chilean miners who were trapped down there after their sins! The Devil is to blame for that! And we all have sin because of Adam and Eve and the Devil can strike at any time!
... I'm going to go back to being an atheist.
I think I have found quite a good answer that they can understand where we get our morality from, the best about it is that i is a one word answer:
ReplyDelete"Empathy". Yes that's right, the reason I don't go round pushing grannies into traffic and stealing Christmas presents from orphanages is that I can visualize myself in a similar situation and I realize that it would not be a very nice thing to do.
Of course, the next thing they will say is but where do you get your empathy from. To which you reply it's developed from an instinct to protect things similar to yourself. Cavemen (and apes) work together to protect the group from outside threats, you need to be able to empathize on a basic level or the group will call apart. This also explains why people persecute people who are different to them.
Finally, the conversation can go two ways from there:
If they are an old earth creationist or something similar then they have to at least accept that this claim could be true.
If they are a young earth creationist why the fuck were you talking to them? It would have been more productive and less painful to spend that driving nails through your hands.
@ Richie
ReplyDeleteThe reason I have to debate with them, is because my class requires it. As I have to fend off objections made to my claims. Actually the thing is they don't even debate.. they speak behind our backs, so we can't even defend ourselves. Besides I already know the futility of debating with those unwilling to look at evidence or shunning it off, or claiming that science is conspiracy.
I agree with you in part, that God doesn't decide what is right and wrong, but evidence isn't a great basis for morality either.
ReplyDeleteIf scientific tests showed that being homosexual made people worse off, and more prone to adverse behavior would it be morally wrong?
Well I'd say it still wouldn't be morally wrong, and that evidence can't be the key deciding factor in moral issues.
I like the person above like just evolutionary pressures in group dynamics creating a general moral order and that has came to the point where doing something 'Morally Right' is a value in itself.
Well... the biggest issue was that the claim they were using was that atheists have nothing on which to ground their morality. What I was trying to say, and I give Richie props for finding the right words for me, is that our morals are founded on empathy, analysis and understanding, and not blind faith.
ReplyDeleteThe argument that I'm going up against is literally this. "What in the world could possibly compel someone who does not believe in divinity and afterlife judgement to not abuse people in this life."
Also as I mentioned, they simply talk behind our backs, and taunt us. and I'm trying to figure out what kind of mindset leads to show fallacious logic.